Discussion:
"The Workshop According to Me"
(too old to reply)
NYC XYZ
2005-12-01 21:29:29 UTC
Permalink
Yup, you heard it here first!

!) No more "round tables"...not only are people not equal (that is, in
the same league in terms of technical ability and passion to excel),
which such a formation aims to pretend, but facing one another makes
for a more "personal" experience than needs be -- by which term
"personal" I mean that people take things personally, they take
criticism personally, like you're attacking their baby or their
religion (etc.) -- for we debate IDEAS, not people, and thus it
shouldn't matter who wrote what.

2) Therefore, all pieces workshopped should be ANONYMOUS to further
discourage the formation of cliques and egotism. Everyone gives their
opinion as before, but we never find out who wrote what because it
shouldn't matter who wrote what and what they intended. The piece
should be able to stand on its own and speak for itself -- and if it
doesn't, the workshop notes where and why not. But having the author
explain his/her intentions is silly...you simply can't critique the
half-baked because the rejoinder is inevitably "well, it's just a
draft" (doh!)...to discourage such a cop-out, and to even further
discourage "personality conflicts" we simply make our statements and
leave it at that. The writer comments like everyone else, only it is
never announced (though an immature personality can easily give
him/herself away) that the piece is his/hers.

3) Everyone reads John Gardner's "Art of Fiction" and Dana Gioia's "Can
Poetry Matter?" as well as B.R. Meyers' "A Reader's Manifesto" no later
than Creative Writing 201 -- and the instructor assigning it as
reference otherwise. This is so that the workshop doesn't turn into a
game of Three Blind Men and an Elephant, so that we don't wind up with
a blind-leading-the-blind situation. One must understand, if not also
master, the basics before we launch off into the great beyond -- those
texts serve as springboards from which one may dive into the depths of
creative writing. It is a lazy conceit that one simply writes -- this
is almost like saying one simply sits at the piano and bangs away at
keys: just because one's been signing one's name since age four does
not one a writer make. Pedantic? Hardly. Like muscles which work in
opposition/tandem, a writer needs to be aware of the tradition of what
has gone before, needs to be aware in a systematic way. Like an
actress whose own power is brought out by the interaction with another
actor, so too does a writer react to that which is outside him or
herself. It's a dangerous pedagogy which romanticizes writing as some
mysterious spark within a person, the logical extension of which
sentiment leads to the "whatever's clever" attitude, a laid-back yawn
of an effort. In a word: craftsmanship! For the introductory
101-level, Janet Burroway's "Imaginative Writing : The Elements of
Craft" is a good workhorse reference that's full of nice examples that
should stimulate the juices of any honestly eager go-getter.

4) Thus, much more time should be spent on theory -- not the
propagation of any particular theory, but on examing, philosophically a
la the Socratic Method of law school, the underlying theory
demonstrated by a piece. For whether one can articulate it or is even
aware of it, we all each have theories of writing in effect -- our
aesthetic sensibilities inform all that we decide. Instead of ignoring
the pink elephant in the middle of the room, let's talk about it. It
does no good to question the particular tactic (gerund here as opposed
to infinitive, say) without being aware of the wider strategy the
writer deploys (again, whether consciously or un-). Too many workshops
operate like a bunch of chefs poring over one pot, each calling for a
"whachamacallit" here and the "thinggamajig" there.

5) Part of the "theory" portion (which, depending on the relative
experience of the group as a whole, will vary in length from two weeks
to a month-and-a-half of hungry effort) should recognize the role of
semantics and what an incredible effect it has on everyday
communications, much less within the realm of fiction. Depending on
the group and other related factors, poetry ought to be sampled (e.g.,
Beth Ann Fennelly's "The Snake Charmer" for how to write about love
without cliche), and even Zen Buddhism with its epistemological and
ontological concerns broached.

6) The instructor should make it explicitly clear right from the outset
that the workshop is not an occasion for group therapy, self-help, etc.
While beneficial side effects, they become a degenerative force if
made the aim of a workshop, whether intentionally or otherwise. Not
only intellectual rigor needs to be injected, but a sense of
professionalism and the aforementioned craftsmanship! Many writers
forget that their first purpose is not to "express themselves" or "work
out their issues" but to ENTERTAIN! Even if you offend someone, it's
better than having had no effect beyond a "oh, that's nice...yeah, I
liked it."

We hit the bull's eye by aiming for it.

QVAERENDO INVENIETIS
Phil Scott
2005-12-01 22:00:48 UTC
Permalink
.
Superb piece, thanks Jack.

We have a similar situation in the engineering business with
the 'team player' notion, The results can leave one stunned
into blubbering noncomprehension for days.

Such is the price one pays for having a degree of competence
and an IQ over 100... that can be a painful mix in todays
culture.


Phil Scott
Post by NYC XYZ
Yup, you heard it here first!
!) No more "round tables"...not only are people not equal
(that is, in
the same league in terms of technical ability and passion to
excel),
which such a formation aims to pretend, but facing one
another makes
for a more "personal" experience than needs be -- by which
term
"personal" I mean that people take things personally, they
take
criticism personally, like you're attacking their baby or
their
religion (etc.) -- for we debate IDEAS, not people, and thus
it
shouldn't matter who wrote what.
2) Therefore, all pieces workshopped should be ANONYMOUS to
further
discourage the formation of cliques and egotism. Everyone
gives their
opinion as before, but we never find out who wrote what
because it
shouldn't matter who wrote what and what they intended. The
piece
should be able to stand on its own and speak for itself --
and if it
doesn't, the workshop notes where and why not. But having
the author
explain his/her intentions is silly...you simply can't
critique the
half-baked because the rejoinder is inevitably "well, it's
just a
draft" (doh!)...to discourage such a cop-out, and to even
further
discourage "personality conflicts" we simply make our
statements and
leave it at that. The writer comments like everyone else,
only it is
never announced (though an immature personality can easily
give
him/herself away) that the piece is his/hers.
3) Everyone reads John Gardner's "Art of Fiction" and Dana
Gioia's "Can
Poetry Matter?" as well as B.R. Meyers' "A Reader's
Manifesto" no later
than Creative Writing 201 -- and the instructor assigning it
as
reference otherwise. This is so that the workshop doesn't
turn into a
game of Three Blind Men and an Elephant, so that we don't
wind up with
a blind-leading-the-blind situation. One must understand,
if not also
master, the basics before we launch off into the great
beyond -- those
texts serve as springboards from which one may dive into the
depths of
creative writing. It is a lazy conceit that one simply
writes -- this
is almost like saying one simply sits at the piano and bangs
away at
keys: just because one's been signing one's name since age
four does
not one a writer make. Pedantic? Hardly. Like muscles
which work in
opposition/tandem, a writer needs to be aware of the
tradition of what
has gone before, needs to be aware in a systematic way.
Like an
actress whose own power is brought out by the interaction
with another
actor, so too does a writer react to that which is outside
him or
herself. It's a dangerous pedagogy which romanticizes
writing as some
mysterious spark within a person, the logical extension of
which
sentiment leads to the "whatever's clever" attitude, a
laid-back yawn
of an effort. In a word: craftsmanship! For the
introductory
101-level, Janet Burroway's "Imaginative Writing : The
Elements of
Craft" is a good workhorse reference that's full of nice
examples that
should stimulate the juices of any honestly eager go-getter.
4) Thus, much more time should be spent on theory -- not the
propagation of any particular theory, but on examing,
philosophically a
la the Socratic Method of law school, the underlying theory
demonstrated by a piece. For whether one can articulate it
or is even
aware of it, we all each have theories of writing in
effect -- our
aesthetic sensibilities inform all that we decide. Instead
of ignoring
the pink elephant in the middle of the room, let's talk
about it. It
does no good to question the particular tactic (gerund here
as opposed
to infinitive, say) without being aware of the wider
strategy the
writer deploys (again, whether consciously or un-). Too
many workshops
operate like a bunch of chefs poring over one pot, each
calling for a
"whachamacallit" here and the "thinggamajig" there.
5) Part of the "theory" portion (which, depending on the
relative
experience of the group as a whole, will vary in length from
two weeks
to a month-and-a-half of hungry effort) should recognize the
role of
semantics and what an incredible effect it has on everyday
communications, much less within the realm of fiction.
Depending on
the group and other related factors, poetry ought to be
sampled (e.g.,
Beth Ann Fennelly's "The Snake Charmer" for how to write
about love
without cliche), and even Zen Buddhism with its
epistemological and
ontological concerns broached.
6) The instructor should make it explicitly clear right from
the outset
that the workshop is not an occasion for group therapy,
self-help, etc.
While beneficial side effects, they become a degenerative
force if
made the aim of a workshop, whether intentionally or
otherwise. Not
only intellectual rigor needs to be injected, but a sense of
professionalism and the aforementioned craftsmanship! Many
writers
forget that their first purpose is not to "express
themselves" or "work
out their issues" but to ENTERTAIN! Even if you offend
someone, it's
better than having had no effect beyond a "oh, that's
nice...yeah, I
liked it."
We hit the bull's eye by aiming for it.
QVAERENDO INVENIETIS
NYC XYZ
2005-12-02 14:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Scott
.
Superb piece, thanks Jack.
Thank you, Phil. It seems rather simple and logical -- the Emperor has
no clothes!
Post by Phil Scott
We have a similar situation in the engineering business with
the 'team player' notion, The results can leave one stunned
into blubbering noncomprehension for days.
Ah, "solution by committee"...no wonder one can never have all three:
on time, on budget, or on spec!
Post by Phil Scott
Such is the price one pays for having a degree of competence
and an IQ over 100... that can be a painful mix in todays
culture.
It's amazing the anti-intellectualism in academe...from the
Creationists to the artsy-fartsy types, no discipline is safe. And
don't even get me started about "black studies," "gay studies," "womyn
studies"....
Dr Zen
2005-12-03 06:21:14 UTC
Permalink
With no regard for personal safety or the comfort of others, the Great
Post by NYC XYZ
Yup, you heard it here first!
!) No more "round tables"...not only are people not equal (that is, in
the same league in terms of technical ability and passion to excel),
which such a formation aims to pretend
Pretends. Fucksake. First thing for you to learn is that plain is
nearly always preferable to ornate for the novice.
Post by NYC XYZ
but facing one another makes
for a more "personal" experience than needs be -- by which term
"personal" I mean that people take things personally, they take
criticism personally, like you're attacking their baby or their
religion (etc.) -- for we debate IDEAS, not people, and thus it
shouldn't matter who wrote what.
Yeah right. The writing in this post and in your other posts sucks.
You can't even write a decent Usenet post. Boy, you have a mountain to
climb.
Post by NYC XYZ
2) Therefore, all pieces workshopped should be ANONYMOUS to further
discourage the formation of cliques and egotism.
What a dull workshop this is going to be without cliques or egotism.
The latter is all that keeps most of us at the old desk, son.
Post by NYC XYZ
Everyone gives their
opinion as before, but we never find out who wrote what because it
shouldn't matter who wrote what and what they intended. The piece
should be able to stand on its own and speak for itself -- and if it
doesn't, the workshop notes where and why not. But having the author
explain his/her intentions is silly...you simply can't critique the
half-baked because the rejoinder is inevitably "well, it's just a
draft" (doh!)...to discourage such a cop-out, and to even further
discourage "personality conflicts" we simply make our statements and
leave it at that. The writer comments like everyone else, only it is
never announced (though an immature personality can easily give
him/herself away) that the piece is his/hers.
LOL. "I think this piece by X is one of the most astounding works of
true literature I have ever encountered... what? No, I did not fucking
write it!"
Post by NYC XYZ
3) Everyone reads John Gardner's "Art of Fiction" and Dana Gioia's "Can
Poetry Matter?" as well as B.R. Meyers' "A Reader's Manifesto"
Why?

I have a better idea. No one reads any "how to write" books. Everyone
reads Fowler and resolves to follow his advice to the letter.
Post by NYC XYZ
no later
than Creative Writing 201 -- and the instructor assigning it as
reference otherwise. This is so that the workshop doesn't turn into a
game of Three Blind Men and an Elephant, so that we don't wind up with
a blind-leading-the-blind situation.
Well, that's bound to be fixed by you all reading some books.
Post by NYC XYZ
One must understand, if not also
master, the basics before we launch off into the great beyond -- those
texts serve as springboards from which one may dive into the depths of
creative writing.
Do they? Well, why not just read them and give the workshop the
swerve?
Post by NYC XYZ
It is a lazy conceit that one simply writes -- this
is almost like saying one simply sits at the piano and bangs away at
keys: just because one's been signing one's name since age four does
not one a writer make. Pedantic? Hardly. Like muscles which work in
opposition/tandem, a writer needs to be aware of the tradition of what
has gone before, needs to be aware in a systematic way. Like an
actress whose
Like a dog with his own balls...

Well, fucksake. You should just email this shit to yourself.


Dr Zen
"But let me tell you that I never planned
to let go of the hand that has been
clinging by its thick country skin
to my yellow country teeth" -- Ounsworth
http://gollyg.blogspot.com

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